Q1 2026 Earnings Call Transcript

Good day, ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to the Sands First Quarter 2026 Earnings Call. [Operator Instructions]. It is now my pleasure to turn the floor over to Mr. Daniel Briggs, Senior Vice President of Investor Relations at Sands. Sir, the floor is yours.

Thank you. Joining the call today are Patrick Dumont, our Chairman and Chief Executive Officer; Dr. Wilfred Wong; Executive Vice Chairman of Sands China; and Grant Chum, CEO and President of Sands China and EVP of Asia Operations. Today's conference call will contain forward-looking statements.

We will be making those statements under the safe harbor provision of federal securities laws. The language on forward-looking statements included in our press release also applies to our comments made on the call today. The company's actual results may differ materially from the results reflected in those forward-looking statements. In addition, we will discuss non-GAAP measures.

Reconciliations to the most comparable GAAP financial measures are included in our press release. We have posted an earnings presentation on our website. We will refer to that presentation during the call. Finally, for the Q&A session, we ask those with interest to please post 1 question and 1 follow-up, so we might allow everyone with interest the opportunity to participate.

This presentation is being recorded. I'll now turn the call over to Patrick.

Thanks, Dan. Good afternoon. Thank you for joining the call. As we look to the future, we couldn't be more enthusiastic about the opportunities for our company.

Our strategic priorities remain clear and consistent with the goals of investing with discipline and creating meaningful shareholder returns. Turning to our current quarter results. we once again delivered outstanding financial results of Marina Bay Sands in Singapore with EBITDA increasing over 30% to reach $788 million. Singapore is an ideal market for high-value tourism spending and our focus on creating unique and memorable entertainment and hospitality experiences for our guests has been a tremendous success. The company's fundamental operating strategy relies on 3 critical pillars: our people, our product and our service.

When we get these 3 pillars optimized, we can create outstanding financial and operating performance. We are seeing that at Marina Bay Sands today. and we couldn't be more enthusiastic about our additional opportunities for growth in Singapore as we continue to enhance the customer experience for our guests in the years ahead. Turning to Macao. We delivered $633 million in EBITDA for the quarter. an increase of over 18%.

Mass market revenue share reached 25.7% for this quarter, our strongest performance since the first quarter of 2024. As in Singapore, the operating pillars of people, product and service underpin our strategy to deliver growth in Macao. We believe we will deliver growth over time in Macao as we implement specific strategies to improve both our products and our service levels. We have a goal of reaching $700 million in quarterly EBITDA and beyond over time as we fully implement our investment and operating strategies and as the Macao market continues to grow. Today, the growth in the Macao market is primarily driven by the premium segment.

The competition in that segment remains intense, and luxury suite product, coupled with outstanding service levels are critical to success. We have the suite product to effectively compete in the premium segment at both Londoner and Grand Suites at the Four Seasons. We are singularly focused today on matching that suite of room product with the service levels at the most discerning and valuable customers and Macao increasingly demand. We are making progress.

We have meaningfully increased our gaming revenues, gaming volumes and premium customer patronage since implementing the recent changes to our reinvestment programs. implementing meaningful improvements in the service pillar of our strategy in Macao will be critical to realizing additional growth and securing our long-term success. We believe we have outstanding opportunities for growth in every segment as we implement our strategies. Accordingly, we will be making targeted investments in training and hiring of additional customer-focused team members throughout the portfolio. Creating and delivering unique and memorable hospitality experiences is the [indiscernible] piece of our strategy and improving service levels in Macao is critical to the achievement of our long-term financial and operating objectives.

In addition, we plan to introduce refreshed and luxurious room and suite products throughout the portfolio as we further execute the pillar of our -- the product pillar of our strategy. We are focused on the highest return projects to increase cash flow over the next few years. We will begin with the Venetian where work is already in progress with refreshed room products beginning to come into service in the third quarter of 2026. Additional luxurious suite product and the total product refresh is targeted to be completed by the end of 2027. The meaningful patron growth we have seen in the London and Grand Suites in the Four Seasons provides support for these investments.

It's important to note that the work we envision will not create significant disruption throughout the portfolio. The scale of our portfolio will allow us to serve customers in other properties and elsewhere in each resort while work is in progress. Nothing we are doing, as we invest in the portfolio over the next several years will hinder our ability to use our scale advantages to outperform the nonpremium segment should spending in that segment accelerate in the future. We are confident in our strategy in Macao, and we look forward to updating you on our progress as we execute our plans.

Let's move forward to provide some additional detail on our current quarter financial performance. Macao EBITDA was $633 million. If we had held as expected in our rolling program, our EBITDA would have been lower by $15 million. When adjusted for a higher-than-expected hold in the rolling segment, our EBITDA margin for the Macao portfolio of properties would have been 29.6% or down 200 basis points compared to the first quarter of 2025. Our principal focus in 2026 is to deliver revenue and cash flow growth across the portfolio.

Our investments in improving service offerings will naturally increase expenses, which will continue to negatively impact margins as we implement our strategy. We do expect margins to improve over time as we grow revenue in the lower end of the premium segment and in the nonpremium segment, where the scale of our hotel inventory gives us natural advantages as we improve our service levels and further refine our reinvestment strategies. Margin for the quarter at the Venetian was 33.5%, while margin at the Londoner was 29.6%. We expect growth in EBITDA as revenues grow.

We will use our scale and product advantages together with service level improvements and targeted incentives to effectively compete in every market segment. In Singapore, Marina Bay Sands EBITDA for the quarter was $788 million at a margin of 53%. If we had held as expected in our program, our EBITDA would have been higher by $6 million. The outstanding financial and operating results in MBS reflect the impact of high-quality investment in market-leading product, world-class service and the growth in high-value tourism.

Turning to our program to return capital to shareholders. We repurchased $740 million of LVS stock during the quarter. We also paid our recurring quarterly dividend of $0.30 per share. We have now purchased 14.3% of the company's outstanding shares over the last 10 quarters, and we believe additional repurchases of LVS equity through our share repurchase program will be meaningfully accretive to the company and its shareholders over the long time.

While we did not purchase any shares of SCL during the quarter, we do continue to see value in both the LVS and SCL names. The company's ownership of SCL remained at 74.8% as of March 31, 2026. We look forward to continuing to utilize the company's share repurchase program to increase returns to shareholders. Thanks again for joining the call today and for your interest in the company. Now let's take some questions.

[Operator Instructions] And the first question today is coming from Dan Politzer from JPMorgan.

Singapore has gone from strength to strength to strength. I think you had $18 billion of rolling ships in the quarter. I mean I guess, how do you think about what's driving this? I mean, it's just kind of the astronomical levels here?

And to what extent are you seeing any benefit from some of the things kind of evolving the geopolitical landscape that may be hitting other regions and possibly benefiting Sagamore?

So there's a couple of things about the Marina Bay Sands growth story, which is really a story about investment. The more we invest in high-quality assets, better service levels we have the more we're going to differentiate the product that we have and the more high-value visitation we're going to get. Look, I think the VIP segment is just a very competitive segment across Asia. The fact that we're able to see success here with these very high-value patrons is really just an example of the execution there at the property.

I will tell you that our main driver of profitability at Marina Bay Sands is mass win in [ Flox ]. VIP is a very volatile segment. And it could be concentrated at times. It's high-value customers, and they can vary from quarter-to-quarter. What I will tell you is that with the introduction of IR 2, we will have more product to address this market and scale with it.

But the one thing to note is that we had an outstanding quarter. Team did a phenomenal job, but these quarters can be highly concentrated and can vary.

And then just turning to Macao. You mentioned the goal to get back to that $700 million in quarterly EBITDA level. Obviously, it's going to require a little bit more investment. But I mean in terms of the market growth that you have to get there, I mean, how -- at what level do you have to see the overall market or mass grow?

Or is that something you can kind of get to or achieve independent of the market really accelerating here?

Look, I think we're heading in the right direction in Macao. I think you see the growth this quarter, and you see that our focus on service and improving our product. We have some work to do there across the portfolio, as we mentioned, is starting to show some progress. And so in our mind, that's a milestone that's achievable.

Obviously, it's going to require some growth in the overall market. But more importantly, it's going to require us to continue on the execution of hospitality and service that we're showing. Brad, do you have anything else to add?

First of all, the market continues to grow. We had 14% growth year-on-year this quarter. And it's notable that we achieved significant revenue outperformance against each segment. So we gained share in every single segment, both on a year-on-year basis as well as sequentially.

So we achieved the EBITDA growth as well as sequential margin improvement at the same time as we optimize our reimbursement levels.

The next question will be from Brandt Montour from Barclays.

So over in Singapore, you have a slide that you show us the theoretical rolling hold. And I know that, that's just sort of a pure statistical output from betting mix. But you kind of do show it kind of curling over and sort of reverting back lower. I just want to make sure, like do you -- are you guys seeing a change in betting behavior or any type of reversion away from side bets or the sort of long bets that you've talked about? .

Yes. I appreciate the question. The VIP business is very volatile and there's an interesting occurrence in the way patrons play now, which is some customers who are high-end VIP customers on rolling programs play traditional bets, and they bet in a much more traditional conservative way. And then we have other patrons who really enjoy the volatility and side bets that we present.

And so when you have like on Page 12, if you look at the third quarter of '25, where we hit the peak of 4.2 with $9.1 billion in rolling volume, we had patrons in the building who really love those side bets. And so it drove the theoretical hire. . In the case of this quarter with $18 billion of rolling volume, it was a barbell. We had people in the building who were [ getting ] the traditional bets in a very conservative manner and rolling a lot of volume.

And then on the other side, we had some people who were really playing the side bets. And so the way we got to 3.6% was a more traditional VIP hold mixed with people who are taking advantage of the side bets and having a more, let's call it, modern approach to the game. And so what you ended up was this 3.6%. But it was not like an average of play.

It really was a barbell.

Okay. That's really helpful. And then a second question would be on Macao. The base mass is not where most of the growth appears to be coming in the broader industry right now.

And I'm just curious if you guys are starting to see any green shoots in that customer just given we've seen a little bit of better stock market and maybe some other green shoots in the macro, but just anything that you guys check or watching from what you -- sort of KPIs and things that you watch on the macro level that gives you any sort of confidence or incremental confidence in that segment. .

Thanks for the question. The market growth is driven by premium segments, both in rolling and non-rolling segments, but we can point to a couple of indicators to show that the base asset and the mass growth is actually solid. If you look at not so much the base mass tables, but the slot and [ ETG ] segment, we are seeing strong growth as a whole in the market and Sands China outperformed the market in that segment by a significant margin this quarter. So our slot in ETG segment grew by 31% year-on-year and 10% sequentially, especially driven by our more mass orientated properties in Parisian and Sands, where you can see the slightly ETG number has grown tremendously.

The second indicator is our retail business. We actually hit a quarterly all-time high in tenant sales in this first quarter, which is an exceptional performance. Our tenant sales grew by 37%. Yes, it was driven by the jewelry and watch sector but the spending was very broad across all of our malls.

And we also saw significant growth in the fashion segment as well. So from the slot segment, from the retail mall, you can see that consumption is solid. But clearly, for the GGR, the premium segment is still driving the majority of the growth.

The next question will be from Robin Farley from UBS.

Just circling back, Patrick, you were making comments about Singapore, and you talked about both VIP and mass. And then you said something like IR2 will give us more product to address that. Did you -- were you suggesting that IR2 will be focusing on one or the other of those markets? Or did you just mean that broadly product to address the Singapore market?

Sorry, I just want a clarification on that. And then I do have a follow-up.

Yes, no problem. Thanks for asking a follow-up on IR2. In our mind, this will be the most luxurious and most highly amenity hotel in the world. And our intention is to set a new standard for luxury hospitality, which will naturally attract very high-end patrons, some of whom are gaming patrons on rolling programs. And so my comments around the volatility and concentrated nature of the VIP play that we see in Marina Bay Sands, in our mind, can be smooth a little bit by having more inventory to bring in more of these very high-value patrons. And so while IR2 will not be focused solely on VIP patrons, it's really going to be for all the high-value tourists that we have coming into our building.

But it's really going to set a new standard and those types of customers tend to gravitate to those types of hospitality and amenity environment. It will also have an unbelievable entertainment component, which we believe will also appeal to the highest value tourists that we have -- high-value patrons we have coming into [indiscernible]. So we hope that, that gives us additional inventory and strength at the highest levels of patron rating.

Great. Helpful. And just a follow-up on Singapore in general. I don't know if you have any thoughts about how we should think about the 2 properties and what combined EBITDA might look like or incremental EBITDA from IR2? Any sort of -- I know it's early big picture.

I think for us, we're really looking to get our targeted return on invested capital across the total investment. So we've always said that we kind of target a 20% return. So that's kind of where we're trying to get to. And if you look at the productivity that we're seeing out of our highest end products within Marina Bay Sands, that we believe that this is achievable.

And that's why we're investing in the project. The market is very unique. The tourists that are coming into the market, the structural tailwinds that are supporting growth in Singapore. The value of the single port has demonstrated a the tourism destination, the fact that we're going to have an arena now that we control that will have some of the best presentation technology in the world.

We're very excited about the opportunity there. So we think it will enhance not only the experience you would have at IR2 but the type of guests we have coming across the portfolio because what it will bring in terms of additional amenities. So for us, we're looking at a total project return in excess of the 20% we talked about.

And the next question will be from Stephen Grambling from Morgan Stanley.

And this is maybe digging into some of the questions on Marina Bay Sands. Can you maybe just talk about how the customer concentration may have evolved over time? Are you actually getting more customers? And is the comment about having being able to attract the highest end customer, meaning that you're hitting some kind of threshold where you just don't have enough space for some of these customers?

Or is it just that you're getting more play out of individual and you haven't seen any kind of upper bound on that?

We went from 132 suites to 770, and we need more capacity. And so we're -- we wish we're going to IR2 tomorrow. I think for us, the result -- there was a sea change in a way that we presented our products [indiscernible]. You hear us talk about the quality of the design, our design excellence initiatives and our design team had done outstanding work.

The service levels there extraordinary. Our hospitality team has really stepped up. Our culinary efforts have really improved over time. Our nightlife is really accelerating.

And so with the strength in our retail business there, we really have so many amenities that just drive the highest value tourists from the region to Singapore and to our property. And we are able to use a lot more capacity when it becomes available. And so I think for us, we're looking at IR2 as a way to really increase the high-end suites that we have, add amenities across the portfolio that we don't have today in terms of entertainment, additional ballrooms, additional culinary, additional science to be seen. And so for us, this is something that we hope will have a multiplier effect on what we have on offer there, and we need more capacity.

And yes, where we made the change, we started bringing in much higher value tourists into Singapore and to our building, but there's more of them. And so for us, we're looking forward to the opportunity to grow to take advantage of what we see as the market opportunity.

That's helpful. And maybe one follow-up, but just on Macao. I think you mentioned some of the investments going on there. Can you just remind us of some of the timing of some of the renovations and work that you're doing and how you're thinking about where to invest based on what you're seeing in the market now?

So a couple of things I'll highlight, and then I'll turn it over to Grant. I think for us, we have a very strong fundamental view for the long-term success of Macao. And our company has been built from Sheldon's original vision that investment and scale creates a competitive advantage. And what you see in Macao today is even though the market is hypercompetitive in certain segments that we continue to perform in those segments with high-quality product and the right service levels and the right marketing.

And so for us, we're going to look to invest in our portfolio. So we do have scale. We do have rooms. We do have amenities.

We do have retail. We do have entertainment, to invest in a way that will give us the maximum opportunity to take advantage of what we see as growth in segments that we're getting the benefit of today. And so I think the next couple of years, you'll see us invest in certain areas that we think we've underinvested in over the last 5 years and an attempt to reposition some of our assets to better address the market today and make us more competitive. Grant, would you like to add anything?

Sure. We can see exceptional results from our new product throughout the last 3 to 4 quarters. So part of our market share gain is a function not just of our reinvestment strategies but also the ramp-up of Londoner Grand. So you can see that very clearly in our results.

And of course, for seasons with the Grand Suites product is also very competitive. Looking forward, we have said, I think, in Patrick's opening remarks, we're starting the renovation of the Venetian. This is our flagship property and we are very excited by the upcoming transformation of the Venetian. This will deliver new inventory progressively starting in the second half of this year, the standard suites will start coming back and then progressively work our way towards the high-end suites and the villas into 2027, and then the entire project should finish by the end of '27 or early 2028.

The next question will be from Lizzie Dove from Goldman Sachs.

So it looks like the buyback stepped up a little bit this quarter. I'm just curious, especially as you see this continued inflection of Singapore EBITDA going from strength to strength. Is this an appropriate kind of quarterly run rate? Or how do you think about capital returns more broadly longer term?

So I think we said for a long time, we see significant value both LVS and SCL equity. And we're going to continue repurchasing shares. We thought this quarter represented a significant opportunity where levels were. So we were a little more aggressive than maybe you've seen in prior quarters.

But our goal is to continue to repurchase shares in a meaningful way. We think it's an important part of our return of capital strategy, and it's something that really creates long-term value for our shareholders over time. So you see the share count reduction over the last couple of years. It's very meaningful, and we're going to continue to look at that direction as we think about return on capital.

Got it. And then just as we think about Macao, for the rest of the year, we're only a couple of months away from comp starting to get a little bit tougher. Obviously, you're making progress on the margin side with that sequential uptick. But just how do you think about your ability to kind of keep improving on that, especially as the comps get a little tougher going forward?

Thanks for the question. First of all, the revenue growth is an important factor. Over time, we expect higher revenues will drive margin improvement. Outside of that, we are investing heavily, as Patrick referenced, in improving our service offerings across our operating capacity, across our sales force, distribution and also, importantly, into our hospitality and gaming service levels. So those initiatives do -- are having an impact on the cost structure and will continue to impact the margin in the near term.

At the same time, we are driving revenue growth. We're achieving revenue share gains and over time, we intend to grow margin as the revenue levels continue to increase. In terms of the reinvestment levels, we have been able to spend less on reinvestment relative to revenue on a sequential basis. We see at least in our strategy and our ability to optimize stabilization in the reinvestment levels.

The market continues to be very competitive. So we have to continue to monitor the dynamics very carefully. But for this quarter, we were able to achieve both revenue growth and sequential stabilization and improvement in our reinvestment strategy.

The next question will be from Chad Beynon from Macquarie.

Two questions on Macao. One, I just wanted to ask about how the entertainment calendar looks maybe through the rest of the year at [ Cotai Arena ] and then at some of the smaller venues? And then my second question is more around just the sentiment with the base mass customer, really good growth in the first quarter, as we've talked about a couple of times and particular growth in the Chinese stock market and just overall what we're able to see kind of consumer sentiment indicators. But are you getting any different sense from your customers since the tensions in the Middle East has started?

Or do you think most of the base mass customer.

Chad, you've got a lot going on there. Answer all these questions. You don't have to ask like 9 questions in one. Let's just regiment little segments and we'll get some of all, I promise. .

First on the entertainment calendar, and I'll stop there.

I just want to say, first off, I appreciate all the questions. One thing about the entertainment calendar. We've been investing in entertainment assets for years in Macao, and we feel that entertainment is a great way to drive inbound tourism into Macao from both China and actually from the surrounding region. And we're very happy to have some uptick in tourism from outside of Macao coming in.

And we think over time, entertainment is an important component of that. . We also feel like entertainment is a great way to show off the quality of our assets and the quality of the experiences that you can have at our portfolio of properties. And so we've been really focused on not only investing in our entertainment assets. So you saw our renovation of the arena that allowed us to have the NBA games. But also other things that we're doing around the portfolio to enhance the customer experience with our entertainment assets, including programming.

So I did want to address that just in terms of the physical asset side. And now I'd ask Grant to comment on the calendar.

The calendar was strong in first quarter for us, which at our performance. We did 11 to 12 shows during the quarter. If you look at the pacing of the calendar, like Patrick said, we will continue to use entertainment content as a driver for the resort visitation. And it helps us across every segment of the patron value chain.

We do see that the big [indiscernible] have slowed down in the Asian tour stops this year versus the prior immediate 2 years. However, we have the ability to bring content of different size, different spectatorship because we have access to both the Venetian Arena, which is the bigger arena as well as the midsized London Arena. So we're able to bring a more diverse range of ag and content because we do have the scale on the performance venues, which is an attraction for different artists and promoters because being able to access high-quality venues at different times of the year is not always easy.

So we do have an advantage in a number of x and artists in the region where we can offer them best-in-class and different range of performance venues all the way from the Venetian arena to London arena and then also to our performance status.

And in regards to the mass gaming, I think you've seen 30% growth year-over-year in the overall market. I think for us, that just speaks to the attractiveness of the assets on the market, liquidity, accessibility and just the overall growth in demand, which I think has been super helpful for us. Grant, I don't know if there's anything else you want to bring up on or to mass I think that's it. .

I think that is it.

Okay. And then you were going to ask us about Middle East disruption? Was that your next one?

Yes. Just we think that the Chinese customer can power through in the same way that we're seeing a U.S. customer, given where oil prices are and how that all factors into sentiment. .

The way to think about this is the number of options available to the outbound Chinese visitor. If you look at the options available today versus 3 months ago, 6 months ago. The reality is destinations that are closer to home are going to gain share in general as a result of the current environment for all sorts of reasons that you're familiar with. So the net effect from a demand standpoint, is, I think, a positive one for both Macao and Singapore because these destinations are going to be more desirable and not preferred during the current geopolitical and also the cost of air travel, all of those factors put together in this environment right now, the short-haul destinations, especially ones of this appeal in Macao and Singapore are going to be more popular with the Chinese market.

The next question will be from George Joy from Citigroup.

Just a quick one from me. Based on the numbers that you are seeing right now, how do you compare the popularity of best amongst your Macao players versus Singapore? And will you guys to use more new cyber options in Macao.

You are normally -- the first one to notice on new sites. We have introduced some new Siege options in Macao over the past week. In terms of your question about popularity, it remains true that the take-up of [indiscernible], especially as a percentage of total wages is much higher still in Marina Bay Sands than in Macao. That said, the take-up of side wages in Macao is increasing the propensity to wager on these side wages we do see a progressive trend upwards.

And I think the introduction of these [indiscernible] that we'll be implementing now and in the next few months, will further enhance that propensity.

The next question will be from Joe Stauff from SFG.

For MBS, I wanted to follow up maybe on the rolling chip volume, just an absolutely huge number in the quarter. I'm wondering the volatility associated with this, is it visitations and what those visitations will do in terms of volume? What is easier for you to program I guess, between the 2? And was there a particular -- and the follow-up is, was there a particular reason maybe in the first quarter that drove higher visitation from this clientele versus, say, other quarters?

So the VIP segment is volatile. It can be concentrated and it depends on who shows up when. And so it is about visitation and it's about bringing the highest value patrons we have who want to be on a rolling program into the building. And so the great news is we have long-standing relationships with historical customers.

We have new customers coming into the building, and they love our service, they love the hotel suites they get, they love the food, entertainment, they love going to the retail. So it's really a total experience proposition and then they show up and they play. And so for us, it's about having the right amenities to satisfy these very discerning customers and just getting them into the building.

The next question will be from Trey Bowers from Wells Fargo. .

I guess just one on CapEx. The maintenance CapEx and the SCL level CapEx in the slide deck moved up for the next couple of years. Is that maybe just one, you guys are doing so well. So why not kind of reinvest a little more aggressively? And then two, is it a pull-forward concession. Just curious on those 2 numbers. Or is it also some of the things you guys referenced around like Venetian rehab?

So one of the industry grades a long time ago said that depreciation is real in our business. And we have to spend money to maintain our positioning and to grow. And so we are doing a full portfolio review to make sure that we're deploying capital in the most efficient way and the highest return projects to generate cash flow growth. And so this increase in CapEx is based on -- our expectation is that if we invest more, we will grow more.

Perfect. And one other question. The promotional activity in Macao looks like it ticked down a little bit sequentially. Could we kind of assume that -- you guys really ramped in Q4. It's higher year-over-year again in Q1, but it's getting better.

As we look forward is just kind of the stickiness you guys are seeing from early promotional activity, demanding less of it as we go forward. And should that be one of the factors that's helping out this drive towards that 700 number.

We've been able to optimize some of our programs, having started to change our reinvestment programming and approach since the middle of 2025. So this is a natural progression as we change our programs, we assess what worked was less effective and great credit to the team who were able to achieve good optimization in this quarter, whilst continue to gain market share and grow revenue. We are also able to optimize the reinvestment level because we'd be more successful in leveraging our product advantage. So we've been able to ramp up Londoner Grand, especially and that has helped us tremendously in -- especially in the core premium mass, mid-tier segments growing the customer base there, and that speaks to the CapEx and the upgrading of product referenced by Patrick that as we review the portfolio, there are going to be other significant opportunities for us to invest for growth.

And at the same time, growing, it also allows us to be more targeted and disciplined in reinvestment as these products come online.

The next question will be from Steve Wieczynski from Stifel.

So Patrick, sorry, I'm going to ask another question about the -- getting to $700 million a quarter in Macao. So obviously, there's a lot of promotional activity taking place right now in the market. So I guess the question is, to get to $700 million eventually in EBITDA, does that assume your competitors pull back so-called aggressively on promotions? Or saying that differently, does that assume more of a normalized promotional environment from, I guess, not only yourselves but also your competitors as well?

No, actually, we're sort of thinking about that in the context of current conditions. It's more about -- if you look at the growth that we experienced in Q1, it's a very competitive market. But I think the market is growing. And I think we're also helping to grow the market with the high-quality assets that we have.

So for us, when we think about $700 million, it's about continuing to invest, having the right marketing programs, utilizing our assets more efficiently. It'd be helpful if the market grows a little bit, the additional growth in the market and expansion of GGR market [indiscernible] is helpful. But we think that it's in the context of the current conditions.

Okay. Got you. And then kind of sticking with that, Patrick. Look, I know you guys don't give guidance, but is it -- based on what you just said there, is it kind of a -- is it fair to think that this sort of run rate of, let's call it, $600 million a quarter in Macao is probably the right way to think about the market for the foreseeable future until that base mass business really does return?

Yes. I think the one thing I just want to be careful about is there is seasonality in our business. I know you know that. And second quarter is typically our softest and just sequential comparisons between Q1 and Q2, given that we have Chinese New Year and Q1 are always tough and sometimes not that helpful. .

Well, just directionally, we'd like to believe that we're in a really solid place as we continue to grow our business and make the right moves in terms of marketing, in terms of utilizing our assets. But that's kind of how we think about it.

The next question will be from David Katz from Jefferies.

Can we just talk about the Venetian a little bit and the degree to which again, I know you don't give guidance, but the degree to which we should be factoring in some disruption as you go through that room renovation? And any qualitative perspective would be helpful.

Thank you for the question. No, we don't expect meaningful disruption impact, we'll be balancing the out of inventory with the businesses, and we are able to redistribute the demand throughout the rest of the portfolio. And at the same time, new rooms will continuously be coming back to the active inventory starting from the third quarter. So even as total number of keys will be reduced modestly during this period, we are going to be benefiting from brand new suites coming online over the coming quarters, especially when the multi-based suites come back online towards the back end of 2027.

Understood. And as my follow-up, I know we've touched on this just a bit, but maintenance CapEx, we usually think about in the context of nondiscretionary versus projects that can be decided upon and moved around, understand every company's perspective on it is different, but just noticing in the deck that should we think about that $500 million number as something that is nondiscretionary, and how did that come about?

First off, we believe that it is necessary to maintain our business. So it's split between Marina Bay Sands and Sands China. But we just want to be realistic about what we believe we need to spend going forward to ensure our buildings are kept in the best possible condition to maximize our cash flow. And so we don't view this as optional.

We view this as something that's a responsible move to take care of our buildings into the future. .

And the next question will be from John DeCree from CBRE.

I know we've covered the topic of OpEx in Macao a little bit, but maybe just to round it out, if you could provide a little cover maybe coming out of from a modeling angle. So are we expecting kind of the investment in service you've talked about to kind of grow in line with revenue. Are these going to be kind of fixed cost people coming online more staff and will happen regardless of which way revenue goes? Or is it kind of something that you'll kind of time throughout the year as revenue increases at different paces, you'll have service levels.

Just trying to get a sense of how much fixed costs are maybe coming in this year versus variable depending on revenue?

These are hires that are designed to increase and enhance the service levels of our buildings. So ideally, as we grow revenue because we're bringing in higher value patrons, we get some scale or some operating leverage across these fixed costs, but they're primarily payroll. We're adding people in certain areas to service certain patron tiers to enhance their experience and make sure that we're at the highest standards for service. And so this hiring in our mind is actually beneficial because while we have to hire and train these people and add them to our team so that we can accomplish our goals and providing leading hospitality in the market.

Combined with the investments and the renovations that we're doing, this will put us in a better position to grow because you need the people and you need the physical product in order to provide the patrons experience that allows you to differentiate and draw the highest value customers and to our buildings. And so this is an investment in the future.

Got it. Maybe just a quick follow-up on that. So the new hires, and apologies a little granular, but kind of on a rolling basis going forward? Or have they already been hired I guess when should we think about the lion's share of the additional staff coming online? .

A significant number of actually -- are actually in the OpEx now. So we have people joining our staff and -- so actually, there's -- some of that's actually in the margin today, some of the additional payroll associated with the service enhancement. And it will continue to be added over the next couple of quarters.

Thank you. That concludes today's Q&A session, and it also concludes today's conference call. You may disconnect your lines at this time, and have a wonderful day. We thank you for your participation.